AI Is Changing Your Customers. Is Your Leadership Keeping Up?

Most leaders are asking the wrong question about AI. 

They’re asking: How will AI change our business?
But the better question may be: How is AI changing our customers? 

In a recent conversation with marketing strategist, futurist, and author Mark Schaefer on The Enlightened Executive, we explored a powerful idea: AI is not just changing workflows, content creation, or search. It is changing how people think, decide, trust, learn, and relate. Mark described it as AI “rewiring” humanity—an idea that came from his work with futurists studying how AI may change human behavior by 2035.  

That has enormous implications for every leader. 

Because your customers are not the same people they were five years ago. Your teams are not either. And if you’re leading with an outdated understanding of how people make decisions, build trust, or develop judgment, you may be solving yesterday’s problem. 

AI Is Becoming Part of the Decision-Making Process 

Mark offered a memorable metaphor: “We are all in the diaper business now.” 

The baby may be the end user, but the parent is the decision maker. In the same way, your customer may still use your product or service—but increasingly, AI may influence or even make the decision. 

Customers are already using AI to choose vacations, cars, colleges, products, providers, and even personal relationships. That means your brand is no longer speaking only to a human buyer. It is also being interpreted, summarized, filtered, and ranked by AI. 

For leaders, this raises a critical question: Are you building trust with both the customer and the systems shaping the customer’s choices? 

Traditional search rewarded links. AI appears to care more about validation: media mentions, credible thought leadership, academic references, trusted voices, and social proof. Mark called this a potential golden age of public relations because AI is looking for signals that others already trust you.  

That doesn’t mean the fundamentals disappear. Brand still matters. Word of mouth still matters. In fact, they may matter more. 

Mark shared how he used ChatGPT to plan a trip to Paris, but he still overrode AI’s suggestions when he had strong brand preference—Delta Airlines and a particular hotel. And when a trusted friend recommended a gluten-free bakery, that human recommendation carried more weight than the AI-generated itinerary.  

The leadership takeaway: AI may influence decisions, but trust still travels through human channels. 

The Risk of Cognitive Surrender 

One of the most important themes in our conversation was cognitive offloading—the way humans hand thinking tasks over to technology. 

Some of this is helpful. I don’t miss unfolding paper maps in a rental car. I am grateful for GPS. But there is a difference between using AI to support our thinking and using AI to replace our thinking. 

Mark used an even stronger phrase: cognitive surrender. When we stop wrestling with questions, stop forming our own point of view, and simply accept the answer, something important begins to weaken. 

This matters deeply for leaders. 

Your organization needs people who can think critically, challenge assumptions, weigh tradeoffs, and make judgment calls in ambiguity. AI can accelerate research, generate options, and reveal patterns. But it cannot replace discernment. 

Mark introduced a word I loved: phronesis—the wisdom and practical judgment you gain by doing the hard work. He made the point that he could have used AI to write his book, but the wisdom came from interviewing people, thinking deeply, losing sleep over the ideas, and making meaning from the research.  

That is a leadership lesson. 

You don’t build executive judgment by outsourcing every difficult thought. You build it by staying in the work long enough to develop discernment. 

Curiosity May Become the Leadership Skill That Separates People 

Here’s where I feel optimistic. 

AI can make us passive—or it can make us more curious. 

If you ask one question, take the answer, and move on, AI can narrow your thinking. But if you stay curious, ask better questions, test assumptions, explore contradictions, and follow the trail, AI can become a powerful learning partner. 

Curiosity is not a soft extra. It is a core leadership capacity. 

A curious leader asks: 

What are we assuming? 

Where might we be wrong? 

What would our customers ask AI before they ever come to us? 

What human experiences are we offering that cannot be automated? 

Where are our teams relying on AI in ways that strengthen thinking—and where are they using it to avoid thinking? 

These questions matter because the next competitive advantage may not be who uses AI the most. It may be who uses it with the most wisdom. 

Human Agency Is a Brand Strategy 

Another powerful idea from the conversation was the importance of agency. 

As AI gives people faster answers, customers may also feel less involved, less capable, and less connected to the process. That creates an opening for brands and leaders who help people participate, learn, create, and feel ownership. 

Mark gave the example of Home Depot workshops, where customers and their children learn how to build something themselves. In a world where AI can generate answers instantly, the experience of making something with your own hands becomes more meaningful.  

That applies far beyond retail. 

For a consulting firm, agency might mean co-creating the strategy rather than delivering a finished answer. 

For a healthcare organization, it might mean helping patients understand choices rather than simply presenting a recommendation. 

For a leadership team, it might mean using AI to generate scenarios—then asking the team to debate, challenge, and decide. 

People don’t just want convenience. They want to matter. 

What Leaders Should Do Now 

Here are three practical moves to begin leading more effectively in this AI-shaped environment.

Protect the hard thinking

Before using AI, ask your team to write down their own point of view first. What do they believe? What evidence do they have? What tradeoffs do they see? 

Then use AI to expand, challenge, and refine—not replace—their thinking.

Build trust signals beyond your website

AI is learning from the broader ecosystem. That means your credibility must show up in more places: podcasts, interviews, articles, trusted partners, client stories, industry conversations, and credible third-party validation. 

Visibility is no longer just about being searchable. It’s about being trusted.

Create experiences that restore agency

Ask: Where are we simply giving customers or employees answers? And where could we invite them into the process? 

The more AI automates, the more valuable meaningful human participation becomes. 

The Leadership Question Beneath the AI Question 

AI will keep advancing. The tools will get better. The pace will not slow down. 

But the deeper leadership question is not, “Which platform should we use?” 

It is: How do we help people become more capable, not less? 

That includes your customers. Your employees. Your executive team. And yourself. 

Transformational leadership starts with self-awareness. In the AI era, that means noticing when we are using technology to expand our thinking—and when we are using it to avoid the discomfort of thinking for ourselves. 

Your greatest strength can also be your biggest blind spot. If you are a decisive leader, AI may make you faster—but not necessarily wiser. If you are a visionary, AI may give you endless possibilities—but not necessarily clarity. If you are a high achiever, AI may help you produce more—but not necessarily create more meaning. 

The opportunity now is to lead with both innovation and discernment. 

Use AI. Learn from it. Let it challenge you. 

But don’t surrender the very capacities that make leadership human: curiosity, judgment, empathy, courage, and wisdom. 

That is how we unlock our potential in the age of AI. 

Episode Transcript

Susan Drumm: Most leaders are asking how AI will change their business, but Mark Schaefer says the better question is how AI will change their customers. I’m Susan Drumm, and this is The Enlightened Executive, where your personal evolution sparks your leadership evolution. Each week we spotlight cutting-edge strategies to help executives and entrepreneurs grow in leadership and in life.

Today I am honored to speak with the amazing global marketing and AI superstar Mark Schaefer. Mark is a serial author, keynote speaker, futurist, and business consultant who has one of the top five marketing blogs in the world. He teaches graduate marketing classes at Rutgers University and has written 12 bestselling books.

Mark’s new book, How AI Changes Your Customers, describes the framework for businesses to stand out and be seen in the AI world. Mark’s many global clients include Pfizer, Cisco, P&G, Dell, and the US Air Force, and he’s appeared as a guest on various media channels including CNN, CBS News, The Wall Street Journal, and The New York Times.

Well, welcome, Mark, to the show. I’m excited to have you here.

Mark Schaefer: Thanks for having me, Susan. I’ve been looking forward to it.

Susan Drumm: Yes, well, your book is fascinating — the research is fascinating. So I want to pick off a couple of different pieces. Well, wait, let’s just start global here: what do we need to know about how AI is changing our customers?

Mark Schaefer: Well, it’s a very interesting idea — I think it’s a very profound idea, because a lot of people obviously are aware of how AI can generate images, how it can change our processes, how it can give us new insights and cut a lot of time out of our work.

But what we’re not talking about are the psychological aspects of how AI is literally rewiring people before our eyes. And it’s not a temporary thing — this is going to create a permanent change, and we’re not going to go back.

In the book I talk about eight different ideas, but I think the biggest one in terms of the implications for business is how AI is transforming the decision-making process. And the way I describe it is that we’re all in the diaper business now.

What I mean by that is, I have a beautiful new grandchild. He’s a lovely boy — he’s bright and amazing, and he’s an expert pooper. He really goes through the diapers. Now, he’s the end user of the product, but to market to him, you’ve got to go to the decision-maker, who’s mom and dad. That’s where the marketing is.

Now, increasingly, AI is the decision-maker. So we’re used to marketing to our end users, right?

Susan Drumm: Yes, right.

Mark Schaefer: Through communications, through advertising, through branded content or whatever — but that’s not really where the decision-making is beginning to take place, and it’s not just small things. People are beginning to use AI to decide what kind of car to buy, where to go on vacation, where to go to college, even who to marry.

And it’s really quite an interesting idea, and trust in AI is increasing to an amazing degree — to the point where many people are beginning to have trusted, meaningful relationships with non-human entities. I’m sure you’ve seen it in the news, right? I think the number is actually 8% of Gen Z has some sort of significant romantic relationship with an AI, or has—

Susan Drumm: Romantic?

Mark Schaefer: —or has had one, yeah.

Susan Drumm: Wow.

Mark Schaefer: I mean, there’s been talk about people wanting to marry their chatbots. I predict maybe in the next 12 to 18 months we’ll start seeing a movement to protect the rights of some of these AI avatars, just like humans. So, this might seem—

Susan Drumm: That is wild.

Mark Schaefer: It might seem wild, might seem crazy, but the main point here is that this represents an incredible level of trust. And this is what we’re turning to, to help us make our decisions in life. There are big implications there for businesses.

Susan Drumm: It’s fascinating, too, because, you know, when I’m working — let’s say with chat, and I’ve moved on from chat as well, I do a lot with Claude now — the agreeable factor of it is so high. I might point out a flaw, but it’s not right, because it goes, “Right, great point.” It’s sort of designed to continually affirm you: “You’re awesome, you’re really good at this, that’s a great point.” And it could be dead wrong on something, and you might point out, “That’s a great point, didn’t think of that.”

And so — it was interesting — your research suggests that the more customers rely on AI for answers, the more their capacity for independent judgment actually declines.

Mark Schaefer: Yeah, that’s right. It’s this idea called cognitive offloading, and I’m actually beginning to use the term cognitive surrender. One of the people featured in the book calls this “self-imposed dementia.”

And I want to emphasize, I don’t want to give the impression that I’m negative about AI or negative about technology. Because, for example, you look at something like Google Maps — I never want to fumble with a paper map again in my life. Go ahead and tell me where to go, that’s fine. That’s cognitive offloading.

Susan Drumm: Yeah.

Mark Schaefer: But I have a generation of people who will never be able to read a map. That’s probably okay. But there are certain parts of this cognitive offloading, or this cognitive surrender, where we’re going to lose very critical aspects of our humanity.

One of the lessons I learned in this book is that I think one of the most important soft skills going forward — and it’s related to this point — is curiosity. Because if you’re curious, AI will feed you, AI will fill you with ideas, and you’ll go down these deep rabbit holes. It can educate you, it can teach you anything you want to learn. If you’re not curious, and you just get the answer, you’re going to wither.

And one of the things I learned, Susan, was a new term called phronesis. Phronesis refers to what you acquire when you do the hard work. So, for example, I could have used AI to write the book — many people are. I recently learned that Amazon has put a new limit in place: you can only publish three books a day. That’s the new Amazon limit, because so many people are using AI to publish books.

Now, however, by doing the work — by interviewing people and thinking about it, and really losing a lot of sleep because I’m so obsessed with these ideas — I gain wisdom. I’m doing the hard work. That’s phronesis. You acquire discernment. I’m able to talk to you with this new level of competency. I can talk to my customers in consulting. I can give a speech with a high level of confidence because I’ve done the work. I’ve acquired this wisdom, and that doesn’t happen if you’re not curious and you just get the answer.

And unfortunately, we see that happening to an excessive degree with a lot of young people today. I hear over and over from business leaders, “What are we getting out of our colleges?” I’m interviewing these people — they don’t know anything because they’re over-reliant on AI.

Susan Drumm: What does that mean, then? So much of your book is about what that means for companies and how they’re marketing now. Is it about trying to get AI to recognize your brand? What do business leaders do here?

Mark Schaefer: Well, that’s a very big question, because there are different aspects of psychology that are changing. For example, specifically for this idea of cognitive offloading, some experts are afraid that we’re also losing human agency — we’re going to give up and say, “AI can do everything better than me, so why do I even care?”

Now, what does that mean for businesses? It means involve customers in the process. Don’t just give them the answer — help them feel like they’re involved.

Perhaps what you’re also interested in, in your question, is what this means for search and visibility, and I go into that very deeply in the book as well. I think the good news, Susan, is — let’s give it a number of maybe 90%. 90% of the marketing we’re doing today is still fine. It still works. Whether you’re doing this in a non-AI world or an AI world, it still lands the same.

There are a few differences, and one of the big ones is that search engine optimization relies heavily on links — someone links to you, and Google sees that as a vote. AI seems to ignore that; it’s not really that important. What AI is looking for is social signals of proof. So, you interviewing me on your wonderful podcast — AI is going to pick that up as validation, as social proof. If Susan Drumm thinks enough of Mark Schaefer to have him on the show, he must be okay. So, thank you, Susan — my AI thanks you, and I thank you.

But I believe in some ways this is like the old golden age of public relations, because what AI is looking for is validation from the media, from thought leaders, from academic journals. So that’s one of the big differences between how AI and how traditional search are seeing the world.

Susan Drumm: Got it. So PR, in a sense, is really the crux going forward, versus—

Mark Schaefer: PR is a big part of it. I’ll tell you something else that a lot of people are overlooking. I recently went to France and spent five days for fun in Paris as part of my speaking trip. I went to ChatGPT and said, “I love art, history, nature, music — plan a trip for me for five days.” And I pretty much followed it exactly, except I wanted to fly Delta Airlines, because that’s my airline, and I wanted to stay in a certain hotel. So, brand preference is an override to AI, and we can’t overlook that — the brand is more important than ever.

Also, a friend of mine said, “Mark, I live in France. I heard you’re visiting Paris, and I know you have to eat gluten-free — here’s a bakery I recommend.” So, of course, I’m going to go to that. Word-of-mouth marketing is more important than ever. I’ll consider what AI tells me; I’ll definitely do what a friend tells me. So branding and word-of-mouth marketing are AI overrides we can’t overlook in our businesses today.

Susan Drumm: Can you give an example? You said something earlier about involving your customer in the decision-making. First of all, why is that important, and what’s an example of a brand doing that?

Mark Schaefer: Well, in some cases I think it’s going to be important. In some cases, I think a lot of customers don’t want to do the work — they just want the answer. But I do think there’s going to be this element of involving people in the answer, having AI come alongside the customer, saying, “Okay, let’s work on this together and come up with the answer.” Or just having activities that build human agency.

An example would be Home Depot. Home Depot is a big American chain that specializes in DIY projects. They have workshops on the weekends where you can bring your children and learn how to build things. So that would be an example of helping your customers feel meaningful — helping them build agency in a world where they might feel disheartened and displaced in the AI world.

Susan Drumm: Yeah, great — yeah, I had heard experiences are going to be everything.

Mark Schaefer: Oh, yeah.

Susan Drumm: Retreats.

Mark Schaefer: I’m a huge fan. Huge fan.

Susan Drumm: The human actually experiencing things, yeah. And there’s a pride in learning something or building a skill in this instance, versus AI handling all of it. I actually created this, and it’s tangible — I can hold up this painting, or I can hold up this DIY project that I did.

Mark Schaefer: Yeah, I saw something in the newspaper yesterday, Susan, about how young people are beginning to have parties where they get a vinyl album and listen to it all the way through — both sides — and just sit there and listen to the music. So there’s this idea, I think, of shared experiences that’s bubbling up again, and there are big implications for businesses there, too.

Susan Drumm: Yeah, yeah. Well, you also talk about how, for brand loyalty, you need to have a shared meaning. It’s one of the most important paths going forward. What do you mean by that — having a shared meaning — and what does that strategy look like?

Mark Schaefer: Yeah, that’s a big topic today, and it’s one that sort of bothers me a little bit. There’s an element on the web that says every business should take some kind of political stand — where do you show up on a certain political issue, are you woke or non-woke, or whatever.

And there is research that shows connecting with customers around shared meaning can be very beneficial — it’s one of the last ways we really see building loyalty. There are lots of examples of brands — Patagonia might be one. When I say Patagonia, you immediately think of environmental stewardship, of responsible outdoor recreation. It’s a very strong stand, and that brand connects to customers in that way. When you connect that way, customers can literally belong to the brand because they feel so strongly. That can be a very important strategy.

But one of the things I teach in my classes, because there’s a lot of energy around this, especially with young people, is this thought experiment: I’ll say, “I want you to think of everything you’ve purchased in the last two weeks — could be a coat, a sandwich, a plant for your office, maybe you got your hair done. Now, of all those things, how many do you know where they stand on some political issue?” The answer is almost always zero.

Susan Drumm: Yeah.

Mark Schaefer: All right. So, I mean, you’ve got to be judicious with it. It’s a big decision, because it can cut both ways. Now, for the hamburger, for the coat, for the haircut, there’s still a lot of marketing that goes on behind the scenes. So, shared meaning — yes, the research shows that if you stand behind a product because of what it believes in, you can get more loyalty, people will defend your brand, they’ll even pay more. But it doesn’t work for every product, and it doesn’t need to.

Susan Drumm: Yeah. I’m going to take a bit of what you might call a left turn here — it’s not something you covered in your book, but I have a sense you might have a view on it. If I’m in the field of leadership development, I want to know: for leaders, what do they need? You write about how AI is changing us — literally changing us. What do leaders need to know about how AI is changing their teams and their workforce?

Mark Schaefer: I do have a very strong opinion on that, and it’s this. I’ve grown up in big companies, I’ve worked with leaders of every kind, and there’s sort of a tradition in leadership where the leader creates strategy and thinks big thoughts — and that is true. You’re responsible for the vision, for the budget, the direction, and ultimately the success, and you delegate a lot of the learning, a lot of the new things, to the people underneath you, because you must spend your time thinking big thoughts. And I do believe—

Susan Drumm: Leveraging that wisdom — yeah.

Mark Schaefer: But I do believe there’s a difference here. One of the great leadership lessons I learned in my life is from a great opportunity I had — when I studied for my MBA, I studied under Peter Drucker, who is arguably the greatest management thinker, the father of modern leadership and management. One of the things he’d talk about — he taught by the case study method — he’d say, “Your job as a leader is not to have all the right answers. You can’t be an expert in everything. You have to have the right questions.” And I believe that is true. His wisdom has really informed my consulting style and how I approach the world.

Now, to have the right questions, you have to know what’s possible, and you can’t do that if you’re letting other people use AI for you. I think this is a big difference, Susan: to be an effective leader today, you have got to roll up your sleeves and try this stuff. You’ve got to immerse yourself in it. If you need to get some help, get some help, but test these models — use voice synthesis, try making a video, play around with it, try to break it, look at what the differences are between the models. Really, don’t use it just as some sort of glorified search engine — manipulate it, try to break it, and find someone in your organization who’s immersed in this, who’s geeking out on this stuff, and have them shepherd you on how to use some of these things. Because you’re not going to be able to lead your organization effectively unless you know the potential.

The other difference, I think, is we’ve got to be obsessed with the bottom line — obsessed with the return. And one of the big mistakes leaders are making right now is looking at AI strictly through the filter of, “What is the ROI?” This is like someone in Dubai saying, “What’s the ROI of air conditioning?” You just can’t — this is like electricity. This is going to change how everyone works. And as we’ve just talked about for almost 30 minutes, it’s going to change how everybody thinks, how everybody acts in the world.

So we’ve got to be in the middle of this — no exception, no matter what your business is, no matter what kind of organization you’re leading. You’ve got to roll up your sleeves, you’ve got to learn, you’ve got to experiment, and just encourage people to start adopting it and see what happens. And of course, you’ve got to look at the legal guidelines, the security of your data, your customer integrity and security, and so forth. But experiment with it, and lead that sort of cultural change in your organization.

Susan Drumm: Yeah. And I’ve also found that there’s a little bit too much of the directive — like, “You should be using AI, why aren’t you people using AI, how much are you using?” And I go to the leader: how much are you using AI? What are you doing? Because without you seeing what those opportunities are, the use of AI isn’t necessarily something to delegate in this day and age. I actually believe you’ve got to be as connected to it as everyone else is.

Mark Schaefer: Yeah, there’s no such thing as a grassroots cultural change. If you’re going to change the culture of the organization, it’s got to come from you. You’ve got to show it, you’ve got to act on it, you’ve got to ask questions about it, you need to make people accountable in their performance reviews. When you have a staff meeting, that’s got to be the first thing on the agenda. When you walk around the plant floor, you’ve got to be asking questions about it. You’ve got to look at every part of the organization and see how they’re using it, and show that it’s important.

Susan Drumm: Yeah, I love that, because, you know, we’ve been doing this in our team meetings — what’s one thing you created using AI? Did it save you time, or did it create something new? Let’s showcase that with each other, so it spurs ideas for other team members. That’s where the curiosity can lead, and it can really highlight — we want to celebrate people using it this way, both for the creativity and for the time savings.

So, I’m curious — you mentioned that the most dangerous marketer of the future is the one who uses AI and still knows when to push it aside. And boy, do I believe that when it comes to content creation, because, like we said before, this idea of discernment and wisdom — I’ve done so many detailed design agendas before, 20-page documents, and when I have AI start to craft one, it’s not going to make sense, because I have the experience of knowing what’s going to work in the room and what doesn’t. That’s from my experience. But now, let’s extrapolate that to marketing — what do you think, in terms of how people are reaching their customers? How do they know when it’s good to use AI, and when they should push it aside?

Mark Schaefer: It’s a topic that’s obviously very deep in my heart. I wrote a book a few years ago — it’s actually my best-selling book — called Marketing Rebellion, and the subtitle of that book is The Most Human Company Wins. It forces you to reflect on: if AI is doing all this stuff, and it can do it better than us, is that still really true? And I think it is. I think in the future, the most human company might be a combination of real people and AI, and that’s okay. But my fear, Susan, is that we’re going to over-index.

We have to remember that marketing our brand is everything we do and everything we don’t do. Every customer touchpoint becomes something people are going to be talking about — about our company, about our brand. We have to be careful: if you over-automate, and people can’t connect with a human when they need to, you are destroying your brand.

This actually just happened to me. I had a problem with a hotel — it’s a long story, but the short version is I had a reservation at a hotel at an airport, and I couldn’t get to the hotel because the security gates were closed. So I had to sleep on a bench in the airport. I wrote to the hotel and said, “I want a refund, because nobody told me I couldn’t get to the hotel.” And I just kept getting this automated response, over and over: “You were a no-show. Your credit card has been charged.” I said, “Please, please, if a human being could just see the situation, they’d understand” — and I kept getting the same automated response.

So, finally, I wrote an article about it on LinkedIn, and it got thousands and thousands of views, and finally someone from the hotel wrote a note on the LinkedIn post and emailed me. Finally, I got a human being — that’s all I needed, a human being, because I know that human would say, “Wow, Mark, we really blew it there. Of course we’ll give you your money back.” Instead, they’re ruining their brand — people on the LinkedIn post said, “I’ll never stay at this hotel.” You’ve got to know when to automate and when to keep a human in the loop.

Susan Drumm: And at least if it’s automating, are you reading the data? Is there some oversight, or is it just off making decisions for you all the time?

Mark Schaefer: Yeah, one part of the feedback is, “Please, please, please, let me talk to a human.” There should be a clue there.

Susan Drumm: That there’s something off. So, if you could leave one idea with every leader listening right now — something they can carry into their next strategy session, thinking about either their team, their brand, or how they’re marketing — what would that be?

Mark Schaefer: I think it would come back to this idea of the most human company wins. I think we’re moving toward an age where humanity is going to be a luxury. And I think if we look for opportunities, Susan, in every touchpoint — to show our smile, to show our eyes, let them hear our voice, let them see our passion, let them see our compassion — that matters.

All I needed from that hotel was for someone to say, “Oh, you had a really bad night sleeping on a bench in the Amsterdam airport, you poor guy — what can we do for you? We’re going to refund your stay, and here’s a free night on us — take your wife out to dinner or something.” Just a little bit of understanding, and I would have become a fan — a fan of the brand. Because, you know, stuff happens.

But just show your humanity in every meeting, every complaint, every sales call. The most human company wins. I think that’s a really great mantra to carry forward.

Susan Drumm: Excellent. Well, Mark, how can people learn more about you and your work?

Mark Schaefer: Well, it’s really easy, because nobody can remember how to spell Schaefer, so you don’t have to — you can just remember BusinessesGrow. That’s my website. You can find my books, my blog, all my social media connections there, and I’d love to hear from your fans.

Susan Drumm: Well, thank you — I found this fascinating. I can’t wait to delve into more of the research you uncovered.

And if you liked this episode, you’re not going to want to miss my interview with JP Newman, who talks about how success alone does not guarantee fulfillment, and discovers why leaders need a broader definition of wealth to create freedom. Let’s all lead the way.

Hope you enjoyed today’s episode, and I’d like to point you to the next important step: hit the subscribe button and the bell to get notified when we release new content. I’ll see you on the next episode of The Enlightened Executive.